Reader Poll: Should JMU Jump to the Sun Belt?
[polldaddy poll=7005131]
Conference realignment is both a complete drag and sort of fascinating at the same time. Nobody likes seeing old rivals depart for new opportunities, but at the same time it’s fun to speculate about what’s next and created dream scenarios for the future. JMU and the CAA got to experience both sides of the coin last week as there was plenty of hand-wringing over GMU’s pending departure, and a whole lot of speculation about JMU “moving up” to go along with it. And the hot rumor of the week centered on the Sun Belt Conference’s reported interest in adding JMU if Western Kentucky departed for Conference USA. Western Kentucky is now going and the JMU to the Sun Belt rumors haven’t let up. Actually we should probably refer to them as rumors of the Sun Belt’s interest in JMU, because we have yet to see anything at all the leads us to believe the interest is mutual. The school and the league might have a deal in place for all we know. We just haven’t seen reports of anything even approaching that.
Of course the timing of the rumors caused a whole bunch of people (including us) to quickly gloss over that fact. It really picked up just after Bourne and Alger stepped up and formally killed the “monitoring the situation” strategy. Todd and I have discussed it though, and we really don’t see JMU making this move. We have no inside sources on this (or anything else for that matter), but it just doesn’t pass the smell test for us. We truly believe that JMU is ready and willing to make the jump, but something tells us they’re just letting this Sun Belt rumor hang out there as an attempt to woo other suitors.
The CAA is hardly stable right now. And quite frankly the instability probably has a lot to do with a certain $60+ million stadium that has led everyone to believe a certain program is in FBS or bust mode. But (and Todd and I disagree about this) it’s not dead. Not yet at least. So JMU probably doesn’t have to jump ship right now and settle for whatever it can get. And to us, the Sun Belt seems like settling. It’s a geographic hodgepodge of schools that JMU has little in common with. The league footprint spreads throughout the South, in areas that JMU draws few students from and has a lower concentration of alums compared to the mid-Atlantic or Northeast. Yeah, many fans probably don’t care too much about a school’s academic alignment with conference mates. I disagree, but I get that. You know who does care though? University presidents. And no matter how badly some folks might want JMU to jump to FBS, President Alger might get cold feet about his first big move being taking the school out of a league with academic institutions like William & Mary, Delaware, Villanova, and others just for the shot to play in a “big time” bowl game. Plus a move to FBS will cost money. In all likelihood it’s going to be a loss leader, so JMU better do what it can to get some serious intrinsic value from a move. Jumping to league with no television exposure, a lesser collective academic reputation that the CAA, and no regional rivalries to speak of doesn’t do it.
So while we’re trying to stay positive and will do our best to support whatever decisions JMU makes, we don’t think the Sun Belt is a great move. And we have a hunch that Alger and Bourne might agree. But we’ll see. The Dukes probably are not long for the CAA. In the short-term though, they might be better collecting the NCAA money they earned, working the phones, and searching for a better offer than the Sun Belt.
Hey, can we do a new poll on “Who should be our new AD if the current one does not sign Brady to an extension soon?”
Hope it doesn’t come to that, but yeah, well said. Pay the man Jeff Bourne.
Would much rather the MAC.
I said no, because I’m optimistic that conversations have been ongoing with conferences for a while, and I’d hope to God that the SunBelt isn’t our only option.
Also, if Liberty is their backup plan, do we really want to be in a conference that would want them?
Being forever linked as Liberty’s closest all-sports rival makes me throw up in my mouth a little (I know that’s an overused bit, but actually I did just do that)
What league that JMU has been mentioned in connection has teams in our traditional student draw/alumni areas? CUSA doesn’t, and neither does the preferred FCS destination of many JMU fans on the ‘net, the MAC.
The SBC has a deal with ESPN.
How is Appalachian State not a regional rival?
I’m going to have to disagree with those last two points. I also think it’s a moot point to argue that the conference is nowhere near where alumni live. The MAC and CUSA aren’t either, so what’s the point in even worrying about it all?
It’s not like PA/NJ and Northeast alums are going to show up to Ohio and further west in great numbers.
I know there is big talk of the MAC, but I was surprised to see how bad attendance was for MAC football games. While the conference may be stable, it would be hard to get excited about playing in empty stadiums against Eastern Michigan, Akron, Ball State, etc. Check out the link below. I don’t see why the MAC is more attractive than the Sun Belt. It’s not like either conferences are great geographic fits. From a football only perspective, I would be fine with joining the conference that is more passionate about football, has teams in the fastest growing part of the country, and opens up brand new recruiting areas for us.
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/12/college_football_regular-seaso.html
CAA is not likely to ever get multi-bids for basketball so if we continue to win the conf tourney as dominant team in a less than stellar league, is that so bad compared to being the doormat team of a bigger and better league? As for football, the MAC isn’t the best option, its the best option at this time. Sun Belt doesn’t have schools that are of the JMU academic caliber so I would see Alger not wanting to associate with them. Even if MAC doesn’t draw well, I would DEFINITELY go to the bowl game if JMU eventually got good enough to win the MAC championship. Plus the draw for the MAC bowl game is better than the FCS championship game and there is more TV coverage for the MAC than FCS.
I don’t really see what the big ‘dislike’ is for the SunBelt. Neither the MAC nor CUSA fit the geographic footprint any better than the SunBelt. CUSA is even more spreadout that the SunBelt and the MAC is a collection of schools from the RustBelt that let’s be honest no one else wants so that’s why they are so ‘stable’. Marshall got in and got out of the MAC.
And come on let’s stop this damn academic arguement, that stuff always pisses me off b/c it just sounds like an excuse for losing and also it sounds like some kind of ‘snobby’ comment you would hear from a UVA Alum after they got their ass kicked yet again by VT or anyone else they look down their nose at.
The CAA is dead and JMU needs out and out NOW. If there is not anyone else beating on JMU’s door, JMU better get out now why someone wants them. There is no need to wait for yet another offer that may never come. If JMU goes and performs in football in the SunBelt and makes their program more attractive their will be other opportunities in the future.
But JMU Administration and JMU Alumni need to realize this may be the best and only offer coming JMU’s way. The next best offer might be to move from the CAA to the BIG SOUTH after the CAA completely collapses.
I voted “No” on this poll, only because after much thought on this matter I believe that the MAC is a much better option. Especially if we can bring along Towson and Delaware. I emphatically think however that we MUST leave the CAA for an all-sports conference that plays FBS football ASAP !!
I don’t see how we fit into the Sun Belt in any way shape or form other than they are looking for a member and we all want to go BCS. The footprint for this conference is predominantly TX, LA, AR & FL. Playing Louisiana-Monroe & Arkansas – Little Rock in any sport doesn’t seem attractive at all. I can’t even fathom what the travel budgets will escalate to when trying to navigate to some of these places. Picking up AppSt & GASou as “regional rivals” is trivial compared to having to deal with all of these other distant schools.
The ONLY compelling argument for the Sun Belt is that JMU moves there as a pitstop on the way to something better. JMU simply doesn’t fit philosophically, academically, geographically, culturally, and other -ly words that would be appropriate here, in SB athletics.
I’m not convinced the MAC is so much better (though I will concede I think it is a better destination). I still believe that, even though we can all read the writing on the wall as far as the CAA goes, immediately jumping ship will do a lot more harm than good to athletics. Moving is only a good solution if it accomplishes something besides “oh, hey, good thing we’re not in the CAA anymore.”
ACC baby! Heck we were ACC champions in 2009!! 🙂
The Sun Belt is atrocious. The biggest red flag is that no JMU fan on here actually wants to be in the Sun Belt. I don’t buy into the “stepping stone” argument for one second. Everyone who wants us to accept an invite to the Sun Belt only wants us to do so because they think it will somehow get our foot in an imaginary door.
What will it actually do? Financially cripple our athletic department and decrease the quality of our programs, making us less attractive to the places we actually want to end up. The CAA currently has a great TV deal, and a boatload of money that Mason, VCU and ODU are leaving behind for the rest of us. I concede our long-term vision likely does not involve the CAA, but goodness the Sun Belt is a potential black hole of disaster.
Any chance the reason Brady isn’t signed is because if the admin. makes a move they don’t want to be tied to Brady long term?
Also, any move is predicated on how JMU can recruit in ALL sports not just football and basketball. The big issue with recruiting is that the bulk of JMU’s athletes come from the mid-Atlantic and north into New England. Any move to a conference that pulls us out of thos traditional recruiting and student feeding areas is a potential time bomb for JMU.
Hey, as long as we have Nero as our AD, the real questions should be:
1. When do we call Service Master
2. How soon can they get to Harrisonburg
3. Can they get smoldering remnants of JMU Nation’s sports dreams out of fieldturf?
JP, ALL of our decisions should be made based on football and men’s basketball. A big reason that we have found ourselves in this situation is that for too long we have tried to sponsor too many sports and fully fund them. That is a nice sentiment, but for a school with our limited funding it is simply not practical. I will restate my position that the only men’s sports we should sponsor are : football, basketball, baseball. We should sponsor just enough women’s sports (with the priority on basketball) to keep us in compliance with Title IX.
Agree 100% with FormerDukeBlocker.
Sun Belt would definitely stink for basketball, but I have always believed that if you are just a one bid league, does it really matter where you play basketball? A team can make themselves better with good recruiting and good coaching. As far as football, we need to be FBS. We have a large stadium and playing schools like Saint Frances isn’t a good thing. People enjoy playing the bigger teams, again, it may not be the best conference out there, but at least it is a start. Perform on the field, draw well and the sky is the limit. JMU is a popular school and maybe with the FBS tag, JMU can finally get to where it should belong in the future.
saying that JMU should only sponsor those three mens sports is dumb to me. It blows my mind that people support sponsoring a team that is consistently bad while throwing aside a team that competes well. Lets be honest. While we’re all stoked that the Dukes made the NCAA tournament, we only did so because VCU, Mason, and Drexel were either in another conference, not eligible for the CAA tournament, or had a down year this year. With those three teams in the CAA and playing like they have for the last few seasons, JMU would’ve finished the regular season SEVENTH. And yet, we’ll support this team but not the soccer team who took down the #1 team in the nation in North Carolina and finished third in the CAA. I’m not saying we should drop the basketball program or anything along those lines, but there are other good teams at this school. And before we “fixed” our number of sponsored sports teams to comply with TitleIX we had even more of those teams. Like our women’s fencing team, Ranked at #2 in the country when the program was dropped.
Women’s fencing, wow. We could have the number 1 fencing program in the country and no JMU student/alum would care, because fencing (just like soccer, and tennis, and softball, and water polo, and track&field, etc.) are sports that no one cares about.
People talk about how a football or basketball program can lose money too; you know the difference? The difference is football and basketball CAN make you money, fencing and water polo will NEVER make you money no matter how successful you are or how much money you pump into them. I am sick of people acting like they give a damn about these sports, I hope you back it up and actually attended womens fencing matches when you were a student if you’re going to act like you actually give a damn about it.
The Sunbelt is full of mutts, but it is a pretty good conference, IMO. Let’s go, remembering that it could be a stepping stone, if we can win there.
Dukes have to think big here. Chance dorsnt come everyday. What about the teams left over from the big east breakup? Uconn, Cincinnati and USF with east Carolina, Tulane, memphis and temple joining. It might take a few years but we would become competitive. New league needs new teams. Definite step up. Travel budget could be a detractor though.
I’ve heard a couple people say we should cut all men’s sports except football, basketball and baseball (never mind that we recently invested in new stadium for soccer and practice facility for golf), but NCAA requires a school to have at least 6 men’s sports (which is what we have) to be FBS. So we can’t cut any men’s sports.
This is indicative of how very little understanding we in JMU Nation really have concerning the complexity of these decisions and how much is actually involved. The reality is none of us really have a clue about ALL the factors involved and their magnitude, nor would we have to be responsible for such an unbelievably humongous decision as changing conferences and the financials that go along with it.
For those unwilling to see any value in the non-revenue sports (though they have made some revenue off me since I recall having to pay for a ticket to get into the soccer game against UNC), I don’t think anything would ever change your mind on that because of the prism you view all this through, but let me offer this as an example… I was talking to my old roommate who lives in Baltimore a couple weeks ago and he was telling me he had taken his daughter and several of her friends to the JMU lacrosse game at #12-ranked Loyola. Lacrosse is God at that school with a big, new, expensive (read: luxury boxes) lacrosse stadium and whose men’s team won the National Championship last year. He said he noticed at least 8-10 groups of local high school teams at the game, as well, where JMU walked into their house and won in OT. There was an article in the Baltimore Sun about the game the next day, too. That means very little to probably most people on this site, but that is a statement about JMU Nation.
So, yes, the non-revenue sports do bring value to the school whether you choose to accept it or not. The kind of exposure I just mentioned isn’t obviously at the level of football and basketball, but it does have value. My buddy also said every girl who plays high school lacrosse in the Baltimore area (which is tons) knows of JMU and its reputation because we are regularly nationally-ranked (amongst all the BCS schools) and a lot of top players in the area go to JMU. It seems these young, involved kids from middle-class families are exactly the kind of kids we target with admissions. So I wouldn’t totally discount non-revenue sports. Those JMU athletes are out there representing our school very well and succeeding on the field. Need I point out our Field Hockey team also has a national championship under its belt? These teams representing JMU don’t sound like a complete black hole investment to me when you consider their budgets are about 1/20th of football’s and the laws require us to have these teams in order for JMU to have any athletics department at all of which to speak. And let’s be honest, when you were in high school before you ever got accepted to JMU, did you care at all about JMU football?
I’m not saying football and basketball shouldn’t be driving the decisions as they definitely should be, but there are other considerations. If we’re gonna talk black holes, let’s make sure we think things all the way through with this move. The bottom line is we need to move at some point and that point is probably getting about as critical as it can get (or not?). A move to an FBS conference, though, could financially cripple our athletic department while not giving us a great enough return on our investment. I know I won’t be making any road trips in a conference like the Sun Belt. We need to realize there’s really only a miniscule chance we’ll ever be in a BCS bowl or make money (read: we’ll never be elite in football and will always be on the outside looking in at the BCS schools with the money). That’s not to say we wouldn’t be able to reap tons of benefits by going FBS, but I’m not sure going FBS for the sake of going FBS is a sound reason. We need to be careful what we wish for. However, that’s not to say we shouldn’t have ambition. We definitely should and we do. We’re JMU and we know we’re bad ass!!! As much as we all want to take the next step, it’s all about cost and a good fit.
Well said Put Up Yer Dukes. I was actually planning on researching the minimum number of sports that have to be sponsored, because I had heard JMU’s cuts a few years ago gave them no wiggle room. That’s what you stated and it obviously means JMU needs to plus up woman’s sports to comply with Title 9 if they jump to FBS. And I completely agree with your point that there is a whole lot more to consider for the decision makers than we as fans probably realize.
I’m anxious about where JMU will end up when the music stops, but I’m doing my best to accept the fact that it’s out of my hands. In my mind football and hoops should be the primary programs considered for potential moves, because if the right decisions are made those programs could generate revenue to help support the other programs. The non-revenue sports can’t be completely ignored though. Likewise with academics, which must be considered. Regardless of what fans think, Alger’s job is to advance the University as a whole. I’m not saying that JMU needs to try to join the Ivy or Patriot League, just that the administration is going to consider such a move’s potential on the primary mission of the University which is education. Good decisions related to athletics will help the school’s academic reputation. If anyone thinks that sounds like some “snobby comment you would hear from a UVA Alum” so be it.
The academic reputation thing is just BS. JMU could make whatever decision they want to today and it is not going to impact the value of my degree. What conference you are in is not gonna be a huge deal to your academic reputation unless you are IVY League or something of that caliber. I did not hear anyone beating the academic drum when ODU, VCU, Ga State, George Mason, ECU (back in the day) were in the CAA. While we at it UNCW and Towson are nothing special either. Also, Let’s face it outside of W&M there are no IVY League type schools in the CAA. It is just a plain stupid arguement to state that if JMU joins the MAC/C-USA/SunBelt it is going to change how JMU feels about academics and that they will say F-academics we are in the SunBelt. I really don’t think from an academic standpoint there is a huge difference in any of conferences JMU could actually get in.
Outside of Vandy, the SEC is not known for academics but I don’t think anyone would turn down an invite there.
I’m not saying the value of your degree will go down.Nor am I saying that switching conferences will result in JMU saying F-academics as you put it. My point is that the school will consider how any potential move impacts its academic mission. In my experience JMU attracted a lot of applicants who also applied to Nova, Delaware, Mason, W&M, etc. To me that makes the schools peer institutions of some sort. And I’m not sure Alger or anyone else in the administration is going to leave these peer institutions for a completely new set of partners are this time. I have no delusions of grandeur about JMU being an elite brand and I’m not turning my nose up at the Sun Belt’s schools. I could be way off and Alger might determine that jumping to any FBS league results in increased exposure that advances the school’s mission. If you think he’s completely dismissing the academic side of a move though you’re kidding yourself.
Yeah, Rob.. +1 on all that.
MRD2012 I completely understand your stance, but I think that you, like many people, are looking at collegiate sports in a pretty idealistic, yet unrealistic, way. Yes, in a perfect world all colleges would sponsor all sports to an equal financial degree and would all compete on a level playing field allowing the best teams to win. That is not at all how it works however, especially at our level. College sports is about promoting a university. The reason that a university would want to promote itself is unfortunately all about money. The more students that want to go to the school, the more it can charge, the more fans that want to watch the teams the more money the school can receive in revenue. The fact is that football and mens basketball generate the most interest, by a very large margin, there is no evidence that is going to change. Title IX legislation, whether you agree with it or not, is the law and we must comply with it. That is the sole basis for my position, an while I love a good civil debate I believe that the facts back me up.
I also dont want it to sound like I dont support the football team or basket ball team. One of the reasons I joined the MRDs was to be able to go to more games and boy was it fun taking the trip to FedEx (where I will say that for the record, the MRDs overshadowed the Mountaineer Band in about the same degree that WV’s football team overpowered us.) And even before this year, I have had JMU FB season tickets for 5 years. You said that athletics are about promoting a university and I agree. I also agree that FB should be put on our tallest pedestal. But forgetting about the smaller sports would only show that JMU cares more about winning a few games than bettering the lives and opportunities of potential students. I’m sure we’ve all seen the NCAA commercials that say, “There are X number of NCAA student athletes and almost all of them will go pro in something other than sports.” Thats what college athletics is about. Helping further the education of its student athletes while giving them the opportunity to play the sport they love. Whether its Football, Basketball, Soccer, Women’s Fencing, and every other sport.
Story of a team up the road.
We at JMU need to take some notes from this story. Going to Sun Belt or MAC seems to not be the answer to our problems. If it matters I like the 1AAplayoffs and don’t like bowl games and would be more likely to go to those than a bowl game in “insert random US city here”….
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“Posted: 11/20/2012 11:31 AM
Re: How did Maryland go bankrupt in the ACC?
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MD incurred a ton of debt the expand their football stadium expecting the increased dollars from the suite and seat sales would cover the debt and bring additional revenue. At the time the renovations were complete, MD’s football team was awful and less football revenue was coming in then before the renovations. This led to massive revenue shortfalls causing MD to cut 7 sports.
Posted: 11/20/2012 11:45 AM
Re: How did Maryland go bankrupt in the ACC?
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So short story is some really bad decisions made by admin. coupled with a bitter group that didn’t feel enough love from tobacco road lead to a decision to leave decades of history to play in the B10 where they will get less love, but hopefully cure their horrible financial decisions.
Great group of leaders over there.”
I often wonder if we’ve tried to build up the football program to our own detriment, and I say this as a huge fan, a season ticket holder, and somebody who understands the benefits football brings to the university. Should football be put on a higher pedestal than basketball considering JMU’s resources? Are we naive to think we can compete with the big boys in both sports? Is our likely place as an FBS school that will still have little name recognition in football’s national dialogue (which is debatable to an extent) worth it instead of having invested heavily in basketball? I mean, it’s not like UVA has a monopoly on b-ball in the state. Is our ambitious football stadium and the team we hope to put in it misguided? Pre-2004, would anyone have been upset if we tried to align ourselves as a mid-major basketball power that gets to the NCAA tourney with more regularity and where there are real payouts to be had, even when not garnering a bid and money comes flowing in from other schools in the conference who are in the tourney in any given year? Do CAA basketball coaches get paid significantly more than their football counterparts because there are greater opportunities for revenue at these mid-major schools? There’s really no turning back now, is there? I don’t know the answers, but I do wonder…
There is not really that big a difference between MAC/CUSA/SunBelt in the grand scheme of things. Each has some drawbacks but I don’t see how staying put in the CAA is better than any of the above.
JMU has a history of staying put and being afraid to take a chance athletically. This history has put JMU in its current position and not that attractive to other conferences. Let’s face it conferences do not stress out about an institutions academic mission when handing out invites. Every conference has their ‘Brainiac’ schools and what would be wrong with having that status in say the SunBelt.
Early Mid 1990’s – JMU said NO to A-10.
2012 – JMU said NO to CUSA.
It seems to me that JMU and too many Alumni want some kind of guarantee or a pipe dream of an East Coast conference or some never gonna get conference invite. This decision does have risk but following the course does NOT get it done anymore. I feel by past in-decision and risk-averse attitude JMU has been left behind. JMU either needs to do something now or they wasted a TON of money upgrading Bridgeforth Stadium. It is not easy, but JMU needs to get out of the CAA NOW and work hard, win games, make themselves more attractive and get in line to move up the chain.
CAA is now officially “useless” for JMU there is no “use” we can draw from it. Time to exit CAA is now. SunBelt is our exit or we have a $60mill white elephant to show off to playing “high school caliber” teams…
Interesting (not sure how valid it is but):
http://www.libertyflamesnation.com/2013/04/jmu-sun-belt-communications-this-is-huge.html?m=0
Really, The Sunbelt? We talking about the Sunbelt? (to paraphrase the great AI) Is anyone watching the Troy/ULM football game right now? I think Turner Ashby has higher attendance at their games. And while we are at it, maybe we can get Lane Kiffin as our next head coach to take us to the next level (and get us in the Chico’s Bail Bonds presents the Micatin foot cream bowl).
Really guys, we are 5-3, with three tough games left and have made ONE playoff appearance in the last FIVE years. The JMU football house (and the attached Convo garage) needs a lot of fixing up before we can even think about flipping it and moving into a ‘higher class neighborhood” and prove we can pay the mortgage. The Sunbelt is not going anywhere, Conference USA is going to blow up as soon as the FBS playoffs start and lets see how happy ODU, Georgia Southern and App State are in a few years. Maybe by then we will have won the CAA for the second time and have made the playoff’s two years in a row.