The End of An Era?
JMU fell 33-17 at New Hampshire in another sluggish, uninspired performance marred by hideous gameplanning, clock management, and immature behavior towards officials that has become more than a trend on the road this year. All you need to know about how bad this one was is that DaeQuan Scott had more yards passing than rushing. The Dukes are now 6-0 at home and 0-4 on the road and almost eliminated from playoff contention. To be clear, there will very likely be 8-4 teams that qualify for the field (and maybe even a 7-4 or 7-5 team), but the Dukes are likely too far back in the CAA to justify their inclusion even assuming they can win out. We will of course keep rootin’ the next two weeks and should a miracle occur, we’ll be happy to witness it, and I’m sure by the end of this week we’ll be back to telling you how to scoreboard watch in the Dukes favor the next two weeks, but today we’re not going to talk about the ill-fated trip to New Hampshire or the rest of this season.
Instead, we’re going to take a step back, look at the big picture, and hopefully encourage some measured thinking and reactions from the little corner of JMU Nation we reach as the season winds down and big changes loom on the horizon for the football program. Here’s the story: Mickey Matthews has been at JMU well over a decade, through a few contract extensions, and next year is the last year of his deal. JMU is likely switching conferences next spring and would be transitioning to FBS over the next two seasons. Those seasons, especially the first (in 2014) are likely to be rough. The schedule may be a bit haphazard (i.e. whoever we can find to play) next season if ODU this year is any indication and with a strong possibility of no postseason on the line (no FBS bowl-eligibility during transition and no FCS playoff-eligibility due to increased scholarships) it’s going to take some hardcore players and fans to produce a memorable year next year. It can be done and the potential excitement and expectation over the move will certainly help enthusiasm among the masses, but it’s still going to be an odd period.
Even if we strip away all the personal reasons expressed by some here at JMUSB and the tactical, on-field issues cited by more rationale fans, it’s still seems it’s time for a change. To be honest, Mickey has never expressed much enthusiasm for a move to FBS, but we were kind of hoping he’d pull one more good season off this year and be the one to weather the transitional storm (We were also hoping he’d pull it off because as fans we would have loved one more playoff run). One thing’s for sure: Given the insane expectations of certain quarters of the JMU fanbase, we would be concerned for a new coach to have to suffer through what are likely to be a few lean years no matter what (see Brady, Matt in the aftermath of the Dean Keener/Sherm Dillard era). That said, we’d think the administration and smart supporters would grasp the transitional difficulties and be patient assuming we see improvements in things like a) a modern offense (yes, you can read into this our lack of support for Mike O’Cain if you want to), b) no embarrassing on-field antics, and c) at least the appearance of offseason discipline amongst players.
One other fact we should point out is JMU’s utter distaste historically for buying out coaches before the end of their deals and their idiotic willingness to engage in the bad business of letting coaches work in lame-duck status. There are some respected voices in the JMU community who think MM is here next year no matter what based on the unwillingness to pay a buy-out. We have ZERO knowledge where the Alger administration would come down on buying out MM, but we do know that this cost will be dwarfed by the other costs of moving up and it seems to just make sense that if you’re not sold on MM long-term, are very disappointed in him short-term, and are embarking on one of the most important steps in the history of JMU Athletics, it might be a good time for some new blood.
We could dive into the details of this decision forever, but that’s the basic framework through which we’d encourage you to view the MM situation as you discuss it at your tailgate against Stony Brook, at Towson, or at hoops games over the next few weeks. In essence it comes down to this: It’s time for a change, but don’t discount or disparage what the Mickey era has brought us as you advocate for that change. Lastly, and most importantly, despite our position that barring a miracle run (e.g. win out, make playoffs, win two games) it’s time for a change, and despite the fact even MM would credit much of the following to great players and good fortune PLEASE please please take a step back and consider the following before you use that pitchfork:
Those of us who graduated before 2004 could never have dreamed of the way we spent a glorious Homecoming afternoon last weekend. And the fact we get to do it again this weekend is even more incredible. That was less than 10 years ago. If you graduated after 2004, we’re not saying you’re wrong that it’s time for a change, we’re just saying you need to listen to those who remember (or really, don’t remember) what JMU football was before.
7% is a horrendous percentage for alumni giving, but I seriously wonder if myself and many others would even be a part of that number without what the re-engagement with JMU that the Mickey era has brought us. And a lot of us definitely wouldn’t remember the words to the fight song.
We all care enough to write blogs, post on message boards, read blogs, comment on them, go to viewing parties, and threaten to injure offensive coordinators. Seriously, just stop and think about that. Does it even matter nearly as much to your friends that went to another non-BCS school? Or even a lot of BCS schools for that matter (we’re looking at you UVA).
Streamers, Start Wearing Purple, Chattanooga, App. St., Scotty, Rodney, Moats, Jordan, Watford, Caussin, Rascati, Stephon, LeZotte.
And of course:
I’ll go first: class of 84. We stayed to watch the RMD, then split. Those teams were tough to watch, even with individual talent like Charles Haley, Gary Clark, Warren Marshall, and Scott Norwood. To quote Jim Mora…”playoffs?” We were a laughingstock, with the exception of the 82 team, and were completely a basketball school under Lou Campanelli.
Mickey (and, to my sorrow, the great player-turned-execrable-coach Sherman Dillard) turned us into a football school. I am grateful for 2004-2008, and will always be so. In fact, I have VERY mixed emotions about the seemingly inevitable move to FBS, and becoming a bit player on the national scene. But whatever happens, it looks as if the brilliance MM brought to the table has been outlived. The game’s changed a bit since 2004, even since 2008, and Rodney Landers (the perfect QB in Mickey’s system) isn’t coming to JMU any more.
Whoever the next coach winds up being, I’m buckling in for an extended run of mediocrity. Having watched the good guys lift the trophy in Chattanooga, I don’t know if I want to live in a world where the ceiling is a December 4th bowl game. That said, here we are.
I was a student during the Joe Persnickety era of the late 80s, where football was an afterthought. Something you did on a Saturday if you didn’t have anything else to do.
Madison was a basketball school back then, and I still think it would be if not for the crappy coaches and hard times following Lefty’s firing. Division I competition leaves a lot more for me to be excited about than an upcoming football game against Stony Brook.
With that said, I agree with the comments about gratitude for the Mickey Matthews years. Largely there has been competition for playoffs, good athletes and a general excitement about football which happened for a time during the Rip Scherer years, but took off under Mickey culminating in a championship followed by a few exciting years.
The excitement is gone, and the program has been mediocre since 2008. I agree, there is no reason to be an angry fan and run the guy out of town. Let’s be grateful for what we got out of it and wish him well. But he does need to go – for the good of the program.
If you had told me as a Freshman in 2002 that one day we’d beat Virginia Tech in football, I would have asked you to share some of what you were smoking.
I don’t necessarily think the troubles of this season can be laid entirely at Mickey’s feet, but I understand why some people are calling for him to be let go. I think we have the makings of a great team next year or the year after.
However, I acknowledge the weird spot we’re in in regards to our pending move.
I’m not sure what the move is, but I’ll always love the man for what he did do, not for what he hasn’t done lately.
One of the best posts you guys have ever done. You hit the nail on the head this time. Playing through the Alex Wood years made me appreciate what Mickey brought to JMU but 14 years is a long time for a coach and sometimes the game changes and the coach doesn’t (I’m looking at you Frank Beamer, George Welsh and Bobby Bowden). They were still great but the game passed them by. It might just have passed Mickey by as well. How else to explain top 10 recruiting classes followed by 6-5 teams (meanwhile the Biiizon of ND are world killers?!).
Oh and I despise a move to FBS/1-A. I’d rather look forward to the rivalry with UR and WM each year than play a schedule like NIU: Iowa ,Idaho ,E Illinois, Purdue, Kent State, Akron, Cent Michigan, E Michigan, Massachusetts, Ball State, Toledo, W Michigan.
Sure you’re the big dog in the MAC but then you run an undefeated season or close to it and get your asses handed to you by FSU. I just don’t find that as enjoyable as a long playoff run.
Cory – I understand where you are coming from, the playoffs make FCS much more enjoyable, but at least under Mickey, we aren’t going deep in the playoffs and looks like we will miss the playoffs again this year. I would rather be playing FSU on NATIONAL TV and lose, then play William and Mary and lose.
I remember at the end of the season last year, Mickey said something like, “most fan bases would be very satisfied with a 7-4 record”. I think we would be very satisfied with that result if we were playing big boy football on the national level (keep in mind, I do not think we would ever become a dominant top 25 team). If we go FBS, after a few years (and an actual FB coach) we should be able to easily beat any of the teams we are currently playing.
Todd and I actually discussed this before he posted it and we see eye to eye on Matthews. I really appreciate everything Mickey’s done for the program. I just think the program has reached a plateau and a new coach is probably better suited to get JMU back to its former winning ways.
I’m personally not convinced that an FBS move is 100% inevitable and I’m also not so sure folks would be anxious for a move if JMU was going deep into the playoffs year in and year out. It’s like we’ve all forgotten how fun deep playoff runs are. I’ll cheer for the Dukes regardless, but I hope folks aren’t so set on an FBS move that they give up on the program if such a move is delayed (or never happens).
As a 94 alumni, watching the MM football team feels a lot like watching Lefty’s basketball teams from my time in Harrisonburg. Every year, it felt like we had the talent to make the NCAA. But we only made in one year (where we lost to Da Meathook’s Florida team that made the final). It was depressing to feel like we’d always lose the game that mattered to ODU on UNC-Wilmington.
I suppose that’s the challenge. When I was at JMU, I never would have thought that we wouldn’t make the NCAA’s again until 2013. It always felt like we were about to make that step up to mid major power. But Lefty left us a little short and his replacements kept leaving us a little farther away.
These windows are short. And I do fear that JMU’s football window has already closed unless we find a smart, 21st century football mind to take advantage of the talent we have.
Thanks for what you’ve done Mickey, but don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Once he’s gone, I guarantee you that you’ll hear a sigh of relief from many of the current players. Many of the former players can tell you things he’s said to them that you wouldn’t say to the person you hate the most in the world.
“Take a f*cking knee, you’re a f*cking disgrace” comes to mind from personal experience. And hey, maybe I was…but that’s no way to talk to a 20 year old student athlete. I’m sure I’ll be attacked for writing under anonymity, but no one is going to put their name to anything until it’s safe…aka when the guard changes.
O’Cain is a class act and a great coach. Give him a break. He just got there. I hope he’s at JMU for a at least a few more years no matter what happens.
I also was a freshman in 2002, like Zac above. Long enough ago that I know JMU before all the upgrades to campus and when Walmart was the anchor store of the mall but recently enough that I can get the expectations to step it up, with the massive investments made to the program and to the new stadium. I have been a huge Mickey advocate for years, blowing off the tough losses (Maine at home with no time left a few years ago, etc) to the tough competition within the CAA and laughing off the on field antics. I also let slide the frequent (and valid) complaint that since 2008, there really hasnt been a team profile, a style. Are we an option based team? Are we a team that throws every chance we get like UNH? Defensive M.O? No one seems to have a clear answer. Again, I let it all go because, frankly, Mickey, to me, was a part of JMU like Dhall or ISAT; and I do feel a sense of loyalty to him for sticking with us through the early years and the championship.
But then this season came. I’m not to the point where I can say “its time to go,” and as is mentioned above, JMU almost never buys out a contract, so the issue may be irrelevant but 17-15 since 2008 in CAA play is a discouraging stat to say the least, in addition to only a few playoff runs since 2008. I’m going to need some time to let this one marinade. I’m even less excited about a FBS move UNTIL some clear direction about our team is determined—clear coach identified for the next several years identified (this affects recruiting), offensive personality clearly defined going forward, emphasis on special teams, penalties and intangibles– off field behavior, students not leaving at half time.
Cory, Purdue and Iowa are in the Big 10. Eastern Illinois is an FCS team in the OVC. Idaho is in the Sun Belt, but you got all the other MAC schools correct.
If you despise something, you have to make sure you understand what it is first.
I also like the playoffs…. if we actually made them routinely. Look at the resources we have and ask yourself, is 6 playoff appearances in 15 years acceptable? The playoffs just expanded even more to 24 and we STILL can’t get in. We have a 24% chance of making the playoffs before we even play our first game of the season.
Last season, all but 2 bowl games had better TV ratings than the best rated FCS game of the season (GSU@ODU, FCS Quarterfinal). What does that say? It’s long been time for us to move on.
I am also from the Lefty era and the current state of the football program is certainly very similar to the end of the Lefty regime, ie., way better talent than our opponents but keep finding ways to lose (and if you think these guys are out of control off the field, you should have seen Lefty’s boys in action). I can certainly understand some people’s concern about firing MM and not finding a suitable replacement or making the wrong hire and setting back the program for years (or 19 years to be exact). But I think the school has already decided to go FBS (I think the decision was made when we spent $63 million on half of a new stadium) and we can’t go FBS with MM. We need a young, innovative coach to lead the program. Otherwise, get used to seeing half empty BFS.
Maybe some here didn’t go to football games in the 80’s, but I can show you pictures where “The Hill” was packed….and sure, everyone was partying and maybe would have been better fans in the stadium, but there was indeed support for the program (at least amongst my friend and fraternity). Those were the years when we beat UVA when they had big plans under coach George Welsh. We put players like Scott Norwood, Gary Clark, and Charles Haley in the NFL, the Pro Bowl, and the Super Bowl.
If (and it seems when) we move to FBS, we are just another drop in the ocean. No more playoffs, no more national championships. Even a great year in FBS would get us in a .com bowl. Who cares for that? And besides, most bowl games lose money for the schools. All these things are troublesome to me.
ODU starting up football has taken players that might have been otherwise playing for us. I bet App St., Georgia Southern, and others would have expected to have more championships as well. It ain’t easy. Conferences like the Big Sky Conference have caught up to the CAA in recent years.
Maybe it’s time for a change…but I will always appreciate our pedigree and the MM era. I would be just as quick to scold the fans (paying and students) for not filling Bridgeforth stadium every week and staying strong to the end of games.
I can only think back to last year’s basketball team…not a great regular season but they turned it on at the end and gave us all a thrill. The FCS playoff format allows for this type of thing to happen in football as well. It may not look probable, but I will keep wearing purple and supporting our Dukes!!!
Good post Todd about how far the football program has developed and how football, really more than any other sport, seems to make one connect back with the school. As a former wrestler at JMU I never had a lot of time to pay much attention to the football team and actually kind of resented it a little, but after graduating I was mostly too far away from the school to get back for games, but in the year we won the national championship I made it back for homecoming and that was the first time I had been back in many years and seeing the tailgating atmosphere and the game got me hooked and I have been coming back at least a couple of times a year since and have started contributing money on a limited basis when I am not angry over them dropping wrestling. It was a football weekend that did that and MM helped build that atmosphere as you wrote. So thanks for reminding me of where we were several years ago. I still think it is time to get a new coach but appreciated how your post gave me a different perspective.
Bob, I’m very clear on the MAC vs. the Big 10. I posted NIU’s entire schedule to show what a boring year we could look forward to. Being in the MAC, etc won’t be any different than being in the CAA except that we will be an also ran in a crap conference rather than an also ran in a great FCS conference. And while we’re talking about it, Purdue and Iowa are to the Big 10 what Rhode Island and Albany are to the CAA.
ChangetheGuard, I’m a former player under Mickey and I have no problem using my real name on here. I think that all the “former” players that keep bashing Mickey can make a difference if they actually rallied together to show Alger, etc their disapproval of Mickey
I agree with JoeB and White Hall, not to be confused with Joe B. Hall.
I actually like O’Cain. I believe he may be hamstrung a bit by the Mick. Not sure about that but he certainly has the credentials and experience to get the job done. His offense has been exciting at times. Not much he can do in his first year on the job concerning our OL woes, a deficiency that may have had something to do with going to a hurry-up offense.
NO WAY can we stay FCS. We have been an FBS-caliber program for a few years now. Not so much in Ws and Ls, but in facilities, attendance, and budget. Larry Rogers once told me, “If you ain’t growing, you’re dying.” Very true. Moving on up!
As to those saying that we will never be a Top 25 FBS team, I would remind them of a significant portion of Boise State’s fan base who said the same thing as they were transitioning to FBS. We can do it. GO DUKES!!
I agree with bulldogg. JMU should have jumped up sooner. And as far as competition on the FBS level, I can’t get jacked up about a game with Stony Brook. I also don’t like the fact a total crap school like ODU has quickly put a team together and is already FBS and taking the kind of players that could have gone to JMU.
I think its pretty simple. We need a young, like 30 year old young, offensive coordinator from FCS school or even QB coach from FBS school to come in and be the head man. A super football nerd guy, former QB of a D3 school, son of coach, grandson of a coach, a guy who only knows football and has been wearing a headset since birth. Basically a Shaka Smart or Brad Stephens for JMU football. Take our athletes and put in a high scoring up tempo system. Then get/keep an older veteran guy to run the D and help with the player discipline, etc. Good cop, bad cop setup. These young guys are out there, we need to just do our research and some extensive interviews and find one.
I was there in the late 80s as well, and I’d have to say that rendering oneself paralytic through alcohol use and socializing either on the hill or in the stands is not the same thing as actually watching a football game and cheering on the team. Mickey’s success has actually brought much more interest to the program and enhancements to the stadium.
Admittedly, I haven’t seen the new stadium or been to a game in years – I live too far away. I was a season ticket holder for many years and remember seeing the change in gameday crowds. I’m actually much more of a casual fan now, and would rather spend my weekends on the boat than inside watching a football game. But I do have an idea regarding coaching and the move to FBS:
I specialize in startups and turnarounds. If I were in JMU administration, I would look for a coach who has led that kind of change before. The search committee could specifically require that a coach have that kind of experience before conducting the search.
If you want a turnaround guy, look no further.
http://www.eiupanthers.com/staff.aspx?staff=181
If the players hold themselves accountable, why don’t most of you?
Plenty of chances to win this game….moreover… shoulda -coulda won against Akron, Delaware and WM. Aside from play calling- what about player execution. You can change the coach but that doesn’t influence our gifted athletes to catch passes that hit them in the chest, make a high school field goal, punt the ball in bounds….to name a few (see link to DNR article by Matthew Stoss).
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_action=doc&p_docid=14A056B583D4BE50&p_docnum=1
.
Go Dukes!
I’m starting to get sick of being asked to give money to JMU in support of an FBS move. I paid for 4 years of tuition. I pay for football season tickets and attend plenty of other JMU athletics events. I pay for concessions and (lousy and overpriced) apparel at the bookstore.
The enjoyment at JMU that comes after spending 4 hours on the road getting to football games every other week will in NO way be increased by moving “up” to a new conference. It’s much more exciting to watch the team work towards a goal of home FCS playoff games than an entirely forgettable bowl game. I’d rather us retain what’s left of our CAA rivals on the schedule than try to build new rivalries with schools I don’t care about who are scattered across the country. It’d be one thing if we were talking about joining a conference with other local schools, but leaving the CAA to join a conference with no in-state rivals is in my opinion a downgrade.
You think the UNH game was bad, after a bus ride to Dulles, a plane to Boston, and another bus to Durham? What is our play going to be like when the team has to go through something similar or worse for every away game in an FCS conference?
That’s what I am talking about Steve!! I have to say that as 1999 graduate i came right out of school and bought season tickets, went to the coaches dinners and started donating to the school. I had to beg and plead with people to come back to Harrisonburg to watch a game with me. Finally after 2004 people started to hop on the band wangon. I find it laughable that those same people now deem the only way forward is FBS. If you don’t have at a minimum of 10 years of consistent giving to the school/going to games I don’t want to hear it. You have no perspective on this. I enjoy Mickey as sound bite and to be honest if he leaves it would be sad but I would rather him go than JMU go D-1.
Yes, Steve and Sean, it is much better to play and lose in an half empty high school stadium in NH (because it is a peer institution) then to play out of conference games against ECU, UMd, Pitt, UNC, NC State, Vanderbilt, and VA Tech.
I’ll be the bad guy here.
My first few years at JMU were spent in the pre-2004 “dark ages”. We sucked. Bad.
Then MM had some unfortunate personal business that distracted him from the game for a year, AND we got a new offensive coordinator (Durden). In that coincidental alignment of the stars, the same players who up to that point had sucked, won a national championship. Let that sink in for a minute.
Then the fans came back, which really makes sense since JMU at the time was receiving more applications than any other school in the commonwealth.
Then JMU was lucky enough to field Rodney landers, aka Armanti “3 national championships” Edwards Jr., who carried the momentum on through 2008.
Since then, we are a middle-of the pack team like Maine, who is about .500 and might get a playoff ticket every few years.
With the money, facilities, fan support and recruiting territory JMU has, anything less than an annual conference contender is totally unacceptable. And when I say “annual contender”, I mean a real one…. not just the blind homers who say it every year. In the OLD CAA/A-10, this would be the equivalent of UMass, Delaware, UNH, Nova or W&M. Every year it was a LOCK that at least 3 of those teams was going to the playoffs, and one would win the auto-bid. Back then, you had Maine and UR sort of hanging around just outside the playoff bubble, who may get a bid every couple of years. That is where JMU is right now.
Mickey dug his own grave at JMU:
1. Regularly throwing assistant coaches under the bus for 15 years.
2. Telling everyone how JMU has vastly superior athletes, and then crapping their pants on Saturday.
3. Hating the media. I hate the media too, but as a coach the media is critical to winning the PR campaign with the fans.
4. General arrogance. Especially when you haven’t earned the right to be arrogant. You have one ring? So does half your conference.
5. Random player loyalty. He will bench you so fast your head will spin. It is impossible to focus of getting prepared for a game when you are constantly worried about losing your job. Then, on the flipside, he will pick seemingly random players (DQS…Thorpe…etc) who can play like absolute crap and never lose their job.
Let this sink in for a minute, also:
– 10 years head coach
– 1 National championship
– 2 A-10 Conference championships
-1 CAA Championship
– .623 winning pct.
Sounds very similar to MM, yes?
Former Delaware coach K.C. Keeler. FIRED by his alma-mater.
I have an idea, maybe we should all put in some coaches names that you think can make us grow and do our own search. You never know they might actually listen to us fans and alumnus…I like stealing ODU Coach Bobby Wilder from them we must be able to pay more and have much better facilities and he has done a great job recruiting how he found Taylor Heinicke in Mickey backyard of Texas shows me he has connections…
Plus I hate what ODU has done in 6 years compared to us we are still in the same situation from 1980….Larry Rogers was a great football player but
love this statement its so true “If you ain’t growing, you’re dying.” Very true. Moving on up!
I vote for former JMU qb. Smart guy that be a fresh start and be committed to the rebuilding, FBS startup, etc
http://www.raiders.com/team/coaches/john-defilippo/ecdec84f-989e-4b76-a7bf-0fbbdabbde75
Cory, Thanks for the link to Defilippo’s bio, I did not know he spent time as a college OC. Experience with QB’s/offense +NFL experience (recruiting & exposure to highest level of football thinking and preparation) young, ties to the school. Adds up to a looking pretty good on paper, he is definitely worth a look !
I stole that idea from M@. I think he may have posted it on a different article awhile back. I can tell you from being on a team with him that he could definitely lead and has the knowledge.
First of all, I think it’s time for a new head coach. Second, I am 110% against going to FBS. Can someone please tell me why we have to go to FBS right now? If we stay true to form, we will finish 7-5 and miss the playoff’s again. The Carr report is PROJECTIONS. (In my 20 years in lending, I have yet to be given a business plan that stated that they will be bankrupt in three years) Let’s see how ODU/Georgia State, Georgia Southern/App State progress over the next few years, let the pending conference realignment shake up (due to the playoffs) settle, and get our program to a top 10/Conference level before we possibly take this leap. If ODU is so happy with C-Usa, then why are they begging us to join so they can have a travel partner? Are we going to share frequent flyer miles? Let’s get our own house in order first, or we could be like Marshall Football from 2005-2009 with a ‘check the back of your milk carton .373% (22-37) winning percentage. (Paging Alex Wood, paging Alex Wood, please pick up the white courtesy phone…)
LLS haha i just saw dis joint. Im geekin like a fool brah. Forreal tho. Fuck Mickey Matthews. Watch how much harder my niggas try once he gone! erybody on dat team hate him. bet on that!
I really don’t think DeFilippo is going to be a serious contender for the job. Who has he developed? And have you seen Terelle Pryor play QB this year?
Hi there, everything is going well here and ofcourse every one is sharing
information, that’s actually excellent, keep up writing.
Therefore, this gives Accelerator great character development in the series. In addition, the viewers get to see his tragic flashback where he has hunted down by bullies, federal agents, and even the military. From the flashback, it makes the audience invoke pity on him on how he became a complete monster.[I][CENTER]Despite Accelerator seeking for redemption, he cannot fully be considered to be a hero.[/CENTER][/I].
led flood light http://www.everlink2008.com
They can be simple or very luxurious but it merely depends on the car owners which one best suits to their cars. The units which are easily transportable and can be adjusted to any place with lighter in weight are considered to be more reasonable for making your perfect decisions about buying them. The costs of these car DVD
steel warehouse http://www.bfsteelstructure.net